Chutney Chick's Chana Chats #1

Welcome to ‘Chutney Chick’s Channa Chats!’ discussions with Second and Third Generation South Asians about their experiences. 

This interview has been edited for length and clarity. Interviewee has been given the name “Mint Chutney” in order to protect their identity. 

Mint Chutney discusses struggles with internalised racism, connecting with their mother over Pakistani Literature, being beefed by their teacher for wearing henna, and egg mayo sandwiches being gross. 

NOOR: Being born and raised in Britain, do you feel you belong here? 

MINT CHUTNEY: Ever since primary school, even though my school was quite multicultural, I always felt - not ashamed, not even really the odd one out since there was a lot of Asian people - but compared to my white counterparts with their blonde hair and blue eyes I think I didn’t really accept being Brown and South Asian.

Partly because obviously this is Britain and the majority is white and we are the minority, I guess I wanted to go with the norm. 

High School I would say it was similar but it felt in a way more socially acceptable and maybe even empowering at points [to be South Asian]. 

It wasn’t until college when I started to really consider what my identity means to me, I think therapy helped with this, and that’s when I started to accept and feel that yes I am South Asian, and I am British as well. 

I like the term British-Pakistani. I feel I meet a lot of similar people who fit under this- we don’t fully fit as a Brit or as a Pakistani person.

I think it gets difficult with parents, they see us as ‘too British’ and then sometimes white friends see us as ‘too Ethnic,’ or ‘too Asian’ I definitely think that having British-Pakistani friends really helped with that understanding, with acceptance, with finding some belonging. 

I think having a community or even just a couple people that have gone through similar things does help. 

NOOR: Did you feel pressure to conform or ‘assimilate’ then, being a minority?

MINT CHUTNEY: In Primary and High School I was ashamed to speak Urdu in public - don’t know why I just didn’t like it. 

I was ashamed to - you know when people would ask stuff like “what are you having for dinner?” and everyone else would say “spaghetti!” I felt so ashamed to say “no I’m having roti salaan.” 

It was the same with packed lunches, I always made sure it wasn’t ethnic and it was something like egg mayonnaise - which is honestly atrocious and stunk up the whole classroom - but I thought that would be better than having a delicious salaan. 

I even remember, and this is so awful, but when other people would bring in ethnic food like samosas I would think “why are you doing that?” almost in a ‘we’re in Britain!’ kind of way, like you need to have pasta or soup. Which is crazy because I was a literal child.

I think even as a child, you can tell that you are different. All the teachers were white, all the people in TV shows were white, so subconsciously of course you start to think white people are more acceptable in a way. 

NOOR: How do you feel about Chutney Chick? Is there anything you would like to see represented? 

What I really like about ‘Chutney Chick’ is that it is so empowering - I feel like if I had seen artworks and graphic designs like that when I was little it definitely would have helped. 

It shows that we deserve to be accepted and celebrated, that we don’t need to hide. 

Plus it’s really funny! The ‘Haram Police’ poster is adorable whilst also still bringing up a more serious and honest look at our culture. It talks about the more negative aspects of our culture, like the judgemental people which I think is a big thing amongst our communities, the judging and gossiping - gossip I really don’t like. 

What I do love about our culture though is how close we all are, which can sometimes be a pain because everyone knows what everyone else is going through, but mostly it’s nice. 

For example, my next door neighbours are Pakistani too and we are always sending food back and forth, if someone is going through something you’re there. Based on white families I know personally, they’re not usually as close.

I think growing up having that sense of community and support system really helps. Even in uni- some people moved out or away but you know at the end of the day they’re still there. Which I like. 

In high school I really hated henna - I loved the designs but I felt so embarrassed, and I worried about what people might think- but now I bloody love it. I think it would be nice to see you incorporate some of those designs. 

I think the whole point of ‘Chutney Chick’ to me is to demonstrate that we are fully seen - to make fun of parts of our culture and what we do in a fun and lighthearted way.

Like the “no need for husband” poster - that was really funny but it has that deeper meaning and highlights how in our culture it is so drilled into us that we “need” to find a husband, find a man, and all of that. You’re almost flipping it and going, “no, i’d rather have a samosa actually.” 

That was really empowering and lovely to see, I definitely find the misogyny and double-standards in our culture frustrating. So it was lovely to see. 

NOOR: You talked about feelings around “blonde hair, blue eyes” in primary school, did you ever feel that you weren’t as ‘pretty’ as the other girls, because you didn’t look like the white pretty girls - since they tended to be considered pretty and popular? 

Yeah, definitely, I think hairstyles were a big thing - I hated having black hair. I remember one time, during primary school, some people came from this big media company looking to recruit children to feature on a TV show. 

I remember that they only chose the only white kids there and maybe one ethnic person - and I remember feeling like, damn, we’re just not pretty, we’re not wanted. It was like, ‘oh no I guess I am different’ It really cemented this idea in my head that white features are what are considered beautiful. 

NOOR: Has your University experience been more positive? 

I think Manchester is quite multicultural and so is my uni, so white people are actually the minority in most of my lectures. So I’m quite used to that. 

A lot of my friends who come from different towns say that people at their Universities aren’t very open-minded, that quite a few have come from very white and christian backgrounds, and don’t see things outside of that as valid. 

I’m grateful that in Manchester diversity is the norm- that we have places like The Curry Mile where there are so many different food choices. 

I’m in this program at uni that aims to get more ethnic minorities in academia. It’s a massive problem, that people in academia and lecturers and researchers are all majority white. 

That’s mainly because we as minorities don’t see academia as an option - we are more likely to do jobs that we see our family members or community doing. 

Many of our parents didn’t even go to uni. At first I didn’t really think about it, but now I feel it has such a massive impact. I notice it in seemingly small things, like language - I feel like I fit in less because my English isn’t as good, even though I was born and brought up here. 

There are times when I will forget the word in English, but I know it in Urdu. I think that sort of thing can really impact you mentally, in terms of confidence. 

I spoke to my mum about Pakistani Literature, and I would say that really helped in terms of confidence- she loves literature so she told me about these different authors and poets and when I went to Pakistan I picked up a few books on South Asian Mythology. Really cool. 

NOOR: You talked earlier about parents and about that label of British-Pakistani - could you tell me a bit more about why you like that label, or about your parents? 

When I was younger, I didn’t like the label British-Pakistani and I wanted to be recognised as only British. I ask more questions now though about my culture - and the food is amazing. I like British-Pakistani because I identify with British culture and norms, but I don’t want Pakistani to be erased. I think the combined label makes sense because we [as British-Pakistanis] have our own, new norms and culture in a way. It feels like a middle ground, you are not “too much” of this or that, you are equally both. 

Being Muslim as well, that really comes into it.

Since Islam is something ingrained in your life since you were a child. When you’re really young it doesn’t always make a lot of sense but when you start growing up and find your own definition of religion and spirituality. It helps to have Muslim friends especially at uni where drinking culture is the norm, you can end up feeling left out. 

It helps when going out, you don’t have to be awkward about “oh I only eat Halal food” or “oh I don’t drink.” You don’t have to feel like a burden amongst other British-Pakistanis or British-Muslims. 

I do think generally people are more accepting these days - there are now a lot more white people as well who don’t drink, which for me was unheard of. 

But yeah, that term British-Pakistani can help create a sense of belonging. There’s always going to be things you don’t like, in literally every culture - but to have people who have gone through the same thing. 

We are still constantly learning and evolving - my sense of identity is constantly changing. I definitely feel it is becoming more acceptable to be South Asian. There’s more shows now, like ‘Never Have I Ever’ where the main character is South Asian - Indian - thinking back on the shows I watched as a child there were no leads that were minorities. 

If there were any characters that were South Asians they were stereotyped.

NOOR: You’ve mentioned that you feel belonging with the label British-Pakistani - did you feel when you were younger it was a struggle to find belonging? 

I think when I was younger like I knew there were other South Asian people - but it was like there was this spectrum. 

There were some people who were ‘very’ Pakistani and they were judgmental if they felt you acted ‘too white.’ On the other hand there were people who were a bit ‘white-washed’ and felt negatively about being South Asian and would express that. I don’t want to judge any of them - well maybe the white washed people a little bit- I think it’s just about finding where you do belong. I feel I’m somewhere in the middle. Finding other people in a similar place really helps. 

Like I'll see it within my family - some are very closed off to British culture but that feels like a direct result of their parents who were stricter or really tried to raise their children with the same things they were raised with. 

I think my mum being the youngest in her family helps, she is a lot more open-minded, but that took a while. You sort of have to pick your battles - if you say for example that you want to go to a party, their minds go straight to drugs and alcohol and “what will other people think? log kya kahenge?” 

My mum has come a long way and I think she is understanding her sense of identity better as well I think, and she’s come to terms more with her children being British so we won’t behave the same ways they would have. 

When I say white-washed people, really I mean people who have a lot of internalised racism. I don’t think being around that helped with my identity, it’s hard. I had this friend who just didn’t know anything about South Asian culture, and also rejected it a lot, which I feel was down to mainly his dad rejecting his own culture and passing that on to his child.

People like Rishi Sunak, who shy away from their Asian-ness, so publically especially it is really frustrating. It just feeds into that negative cycle that being South Asian or not white is awful and that you should be ashamed of it. 

That’s what I love about Chutney Chick! It’s essentially telling those people to F*** Off and says, no, I’m Asian and I’m proud. You’re highlighting the beauty of it, of being different from the norm. It helps to educate people as well on South Asian, I I think a lot of people aren’t aware of it. 

There should be a Chutney Chick podcast - each week there’s like a different South Asian person. 

Everyone’s story is different. Everyone has different things they may like or dislike about the culture and it would be nice to hear what different South Asian people would have to say.

NOOR: How do you feel about the phrase and sentiment “we’re all the same/I don’t see colour”?

I actually hate that. When I was little I thought that’s what I was taught to believe - but as I got older I realised like, no, you have to recognise that everyone comes from a different background. 

For example, with things like getting a professional job the process of that for a white person versus an ethnic person, you need to recognise the different struggles and challenges an ethnic person would face.

It’s not even just about the challenges, it’s about recognising our unique beauty too, you can’t just say everyone is all the same because we are not - we all have different cultures, and foods, and community styles - to put everyone in one single box is not what we want to achieve.

I think we should be acknowledging and educating and celebrating that everyone does things differently and that’s cool. 

The “I don’t see colour” thing is lazy, it’s as if it’s saying we’re all the same so there is no need to bother learning about each other and other cultures. 

It puts pressure on us as minorities to essentially “be the same” as white people.